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	<title>Comments on: Subordination</title>
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	<link>http://www.lesbiandad.net/2006/11/22/subordination/</link>
	<description>notes from the crossroads of mother and father</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 08:54:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<item>
		<title>By: LesbianDad</title>
		<link>http://www.lesbiandad.net/2006/11/22/subordination/#comment-209</link>
		<dc:creator>LesbianDad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Nov 2006 01:41:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lesbiandad.net/2006/11/22/subordination/#comment-209</guid>
		<description>Thank &lt;i&gt;you&lt;/i&gt;.  For the kind comment and for working as a teacher.  &lt;i&gt;That's&lt;/i&gt; a gift that keeps on giving.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank <i>you</i>.  For the kind comment and for working as a teacher.  <i>That&#8217;s</i> a gift that keeps on giving.</p>
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		<title>By: doulameg</title>
		<link>http://www.lesbiandad.net/2006/11/22/subordination/#comment-208</link>
		<dc:creator>doulameg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Nov 2006 00:49:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lesbiandad.net/2006/11/22/subordination/#comment-208</guid>
		<description>I have spent the past 3  years of my life teaching small children and had to comment because you so eloquently and perfectly captured the essence of the task.  I am daily cognizant of the connection between good teaching and good parenting, even as I am not yet a parent myself (but earnestly hope to be one day!).  For me, the most delightful and often overlooked task of the teacher is in fact that "habit of viewing the world empathically from the kid's point of view." 

And I constantly struggle to give my students the opportunity to learn by doing - to break out of the defective mould that our current public education system has created and imposed on teachers nationwide. 

I truly do believe that my job is to cultivate the conditions for growth for each and every student - and what a delicate and complex task!  As a teacher (and a person), it is so easy to get lost in the details -- I always appreciate being reminded of the bigger picture.  So thank you.

P.S. I saw you read at Ti Couz for the mommylit event and have been enjoying your blog ever since. It is a gift. : )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have spent the past 3  years of my life teaching small children and had to comment because you so eloquently and perfectly captured the essence of the task.  I am daily cognizant of the connection between good teaching and good parenting, even as I am not yet a parent myself (but earnestly hope to be one day!).  For me, the most delightful and often overlooked task of the teacher is in fact that &#8220;habit of viewing the world empathically from the kid&#8217;s point of view.&#8221; </p>
<p>And I constantly struggle to give my students the opportunity to learn by doing - to break out of the defective mould that our current public education system has created and imposed on teachers nationwide. </p>
<p>I truly do believe that my job is to cultivate the conditions for growth for each and every student - and what a delicate and complex task!  As a teacher (and a person), it is so easy to get lost in the details &#8212; I always appreciate being reminded of the bigger picture.  So thank you.</p>
<p>P.S. I saw you read at Ti Couz for the mommylit event and have been enjoying your blog ever since. It is a gift. : )</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: LesbianDad</title>
		<link>http://www.lesbiandad.net/2006/11/22/subordination/#comment-204</link>
		<dc:creator>LesbianDad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Nov 2006 01:59:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lesbiandad.net/2006/11/22/subordination/#comment-204</guid>
		<description>As we anticipate kid #2, I'm wondering: maybe it's like how parents love more than one kid.  Everyone says your heart expands, accordingly.  And I remember as a kid often asking my parents whether they loved me more or less than my sister.  Every time, they said -- and we all know the answer -- they loved us each as much, and each differently.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As we anticipate kid #2, I&#8217;m wondering: maybe it&#8217;s like how parents love more than one kid.  Everyone says your heart expands, accordingly.  And I remember as a kid often asking my parents whether they loved me more or less than my sister.  Every time, they said &#8212; and we all know the answer &#8212; they loved us each as much, and each differently.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: LesbianDad</title>
		<link>http://www.lesbiandad.net/2006/11/22/subordination/#comment-203</link>
		<dc:creator>LesbianDad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Nov 2006 01:55:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lesbiandad.net/2006/11/22/subordination/#comment-203</guid>
		<description>Thank you, Liza, for the perspective on the other side of the changing table, as it were.   And thank you for the term "baba mother" (paired with "bio mother").  I love it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Liza, for the perspective on the other side of the changing table, as it were.   And thank you for the term &#8220;baba mother&#8221; (paired with &#8220;bio mother&#8221;).  I love it!</p>
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		<title>By: Trista</title>
		<link>http://www.lesbiandad.net/2006/11/22/subordination/#comment-201</link>
		<dc:creator>Trista</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Nov 2006 18:54:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lesbiandad.net/2006/11/22/subordination/#comment-201</guid>
		<description>This is interesting to me.  I was worried about that subordination.  I was VERY worried about it.  Because, unlike you (I think, from what I remember of your Other Mother contribution) I always wanted to give birth.  I expected to feel like chopped liver, and I expected to be resentful of such mangled meat status.  And, for the first few weeks, I was.  Both there and resentful of it.  At the same time I was ecstatic and in love and in awe of my wife and all those good things.  And tired.  Very, very tired.  

But.  That dynamic changed.  And for us, I think it changed so early simply because Kristin couldn't breastfeed.  Once Kristin went back to work full-time, and the baby wasn't being completely sustained by her body, our dynamics evened out.  Now, if anything, our daughter is more attached to me (I blogged about this today, how I'm the only one who can get her to sleep -- the only one she emphatically wants at night) than to Kristin.  And, surprisingly, given how I felt during the pregnancy and when she was born, I'm not thrilled about this.

I think you're absolutely right that it's time and circumstance which relegates the lesbian dads and non-bio moms (GOD how I hate that term) to a more peripheral importance in their child's life. And you're right as well that patience and understanding are the only antidotes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is interesting to me.  I was worried about that subordination.  I was VERY worried about it.  Because, unlike you (I think, from what I remember of your Other Mother contribution) I always wanted to give birth.  I expected to feel like chopped liver, and I expected to be resentful of such mangled meat status.  And, for the first few weeks, I was.  Both there and resentful of it.  At the same time I was ecstatic and in love and in awe of my wife and all those good things.  And tired.  Very, very tired.  </p>
<p>But.  That dynamic changed.  And for us, I think it changed so early simply because Kristin couldn&#8217;t breastfeed.  Once Kristin went back to work full-time, and the baby wasn&#8217;t being completely sustained by her body, our dynamics evened out.  Now, if anything, our daughter is more attached to me (I blogged about this today, how I&#8217;m the only one who can get her to sleep &#8212; the only one she emphatically wants at night) than to Kristin.  And, surprisingly, given how I felt during the pregnancy and when she was born, I&#8217;m not thrilled about this.</p>
<p>I think you&#8217;re absolutely right that it&#8217;s time and circumstance which relegates the lesbian dads and non-bio moms (GOD how I hate that term) to a more peripheral importance in their child&#8217;s life. And you&#8217;re right as well that patience and understanding are the only antidotes.</p>
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		<title>By: Liza</title>
		<link>http://www.lesbiandad.net/2006/11/22/subordination/#comment-200</link>
		<dc:creator>Liza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Nov 2006 16:04:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lesbiandad.net/2006/11/22/subordination/#comment-200</guid>
		<description>Possibly the most useful thing anyone has said to me (and Jill) on this subject is this:

Who the "stalked" parent is will go back and forth over time. 

I cannot express how much I hope that is true.

I think these early months and years are so hard for both bio and baba mothers. (I think I may start using that instead of the "less than" sounding alternatives like "other" and "non-bio.") You yearn for that intense connection with the little one that we have by virtue of birth and nursing. We yearn for moments of physical comfort alone.

And although you didn't address this, one of the other missings in the new baba's life, as distinct from the new bio's, is overwhelmng physical intimacy. 

Before Noah was born, Jill and I cuddled on the couch together many evenings, and slept spooned together until I was too pregnant for that to work. But during the last 9 months, a growing person has hung from my breasts for hours every day, slept sprawled on my lap, and increasingly climbed, hugged, kissed, pulled and otherwise been a barnacle-like presence on my body for a lot of the time that used to be occupied by cuddling with my wife.

Even back then, sometimes I needed a break. A little time to just have my body to myself. Now, those minutes come at the expense of that cuddle time with Jill. I try to still snuggle with her for a few moments, but some days, I just don't have it in me. And they're the hardest days, when Noah has been whiny and fussy and difficult, and both of them need me the most.

Let us hope hope hope that these things will pass. Soon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Possibly the most useful thing anyone has said to me (and Jill) on this subject is this:</p>
<p>Who the &#8220;stalked&#8221; parent is will go back and forth over time. </p>
<p>I cannot express how much I hope that is true.</p>
<p>I think these early months and years are so hard for both bio and baba mothers. (I think I may start using that instead of the &#8220;less than&#8221; sounding alternatives like &#8220;other&#8221; and &#8220;non-bio.&#8221;) You yearn for that intense connection with the little one that we have by virtue of birth and nursing. We yearn for moments of physical comfort alone.</p>
<p>And although you didn&#8217;t address this, one of the other missings in the new baba&#8217;s life, as distinct from the new bio&#8217;s, is overwhelmng physical intimacy. </p>
<p>Before Noah was born, Jill and I cuddled on the couch together many evenings, and slept spooned together until I was too pregnant for that to work. But during the last 9 months, a growing person has hung from my breasts for hours every day, slept sprawled on my lap, and increasingly climbed, hugged, kissed, pulled and otherwise been a barnacle-like presence on my body for a lot of the time that used to be occupied by cuddling with my wife.</p>
<p>Even back then, sometimes I needed a break. A little time to just have my body to myself. Now, those minutes come at the expense of that cuddle time with Jill. I try to still snuggle with her for a few moments, but some days, I just don&#8217;t have it in me. And they&#8217;re the hardest days, when Noah has been whiny and fussy and difficult, and both of them need me the most.</p>
<p>Let us hope hope hope that these things will pass. Soon.</p>
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